Are you tired of hearing the word “balance?” It has become a buzzword, that seemingly unattainable standard that women entrepreneurs aspire to. Finding that perfect balance can be a daily battle. But after talking to the brilliant, endearing, and energetic Joy Chudacoff, it feels achievable – and closer than we ever expected it to be. We talked extensively about that – and about how embracing our fears is a key to unlocking true power in the creative process.

Fear is a natural partner to creativity… Surround yourself with really successful people because they can always help you through it

How to Master the Creative Process: Embrace Your Fear

Joy knows firsthand what it’s like to live with and embrace fear. She’s dealt with running (and then selling) her own marketing company, donating her kidney to her husband (they really are a perfect match!), and then starting a successful business coaching and mentoring business so that she could work from home to spend more time with her family.

And we talked about the simple truth of how any new idea, venture, or pursuit comes with a healthy dose of fear. It’s what we do with that fear that defines the creative process, our successes, and us. In this episode, Joy shared her secret to overcoming fear and how to fill our days with more joy and fulfillment.

Connect with Joy

Accelerate lasting success through harmony of mind, body, soul, and business


Today, I had the pleasure of speaking with Joy Chudacoff who is a brilliant women’s business coach. I had the opportunity to attend her Align Retreat in Los Angeles. I was just blown away, she really is just this amazing expert, she’s warm, she’s fun, and she did a fabulous job. She’s also got a podcast that ranks on the top 100 business podcasts on iTunes.

Our conversation was wide ranging from how she evolved her marketing company into becoming a women’s business coach. To some of the great advice that she has to offer, for example, really embracing fear is part of the creative process—I know for me, fear and anxiety comes up and I think a lot of times with high pressure lifestyles that that’s something that you have to contend with to things like the people that you want to have in your support system, and maybe some of the people you don’t want to have in your support system. It’s a really interesting conversation. I enjoyed it very much and I hope you do too.

JM: Hi, Joy. How are you?

JC: I’m great, Jenn. How are you?

JM: I’m good. I’m so excited to talk with you. Ever since I attended your conference, I’ve been thinking about you and all the great things that you shared. I think you’re such a cool person and I’m excited to talk with you. Thank you for making the time.

JC: Oh, you’re so welcome. I’m honored to be on the podcast and looking forward to sharing some nuggets with your listeners.

JM: Awesome. Thank you. It’s interesting, I think that having been to your conference and being able to really experience your wisdom myself, it’s so easy to just think that people are kind of an overnight success. But I know that you have a long career behind you. How did you get started? Now you are—and I know that this is going to sound so pedestrian for what you really actually do—but you’re a business coach. Tell us a little bit about what you do now and how you wound up in that place.

JC: Yeah, that’s a great question. I ended up in coaching I think in a bit of fortuitous way. This isn’t my first career, I owned a marketing company for many, many years, 12 years to be exact. I started business in my late 20s. I didn’t come to coaching really until my late 30s.

Actually, Jenn, I didn’t know coaching existed other than for athletics. I had a friend who had talked to me about joining a group that she was in, that was a very specific women’s group here in Los Angeles, this was back in the late 90s. I joined it. That was led by this fabulous woman who was really a very wise, wise woman who said she was a coach. I found it so interesting. The way I came to coaching was I first learned about it through her. However, my husband then had a very serious illness that he had gone through. Then we started thinking about having kids, I had my kids very late in my early 40s.

Basically, the business I had owned prior to marketing company was very successful, we did several million dollars a year. But, Jenn, it wasn’t set up for motherhood. I travelled a lot, we lived close to the airport. I ended up selling my company first to a competitor. Then after some time, really, being at home with our first child, I’m realizing that business is in my blood. I love working, I love business. It was a bit of a journey for me. But I realized that I had a lot of knowledge to share with women so I decided to get a coaching certification and start advising and helping women entrepreneurs with their businesses.

JM: I love that, I love that. I haven’t gone through a somewhat similar journey. My other business, social media, we started as full service marketing and found the same thing. It’s not set up for parenthood or the faint of heart. It’s a rough industry. Lots of long hours. I found myself very fearful about making a change. Did you feel that way at that time? Did you feel pretty set that this was really the right thing for you at that point?

JC: Initially, when I first sold my company, on the one hand, I was thrilled that I sold the company and I put it in very good hands because it was my baby for 12 years. Then I had trouble for a while because that was my identity. My business was my identity. Again, I had my kids late. From age 28–40, I was really focused on career, career and dating my husband, being with my husband, at that point we weren’t married yet. I was very focused on career. When I lost that, I lost a big [part 00:05:00] of me. I had to go through I think a grieving period or a bit of a transition if you will. Then, once I really started thinking about the impact I felt I could make with the knowledge I had to help other women with their businesses, and then I learned about coaching, I really felt like this is a fit for me, I got really excited and I was extremely passionate about it.

JM: That’s awesome. I think the passion sometimes is the thing that you have to really left onto you to override that fear. It’s always so easy once you really know where you’re going, but when you’re doing something brand new and you can’t envision that, it’s hard to make that change even when you really want to.

JC: I think that’s true. The one thing a great mentor shared with me many, many years ago was that fear is a natural partner to creativity.

JM: Ooh, that’s great.

JC: When you’ve got an idea, or you’re feeling creative, or there’s something that you’re really excited about, you have to understand that and try to dissuade you or persuade you from doing it. That’s something I had to learn early on that, “Okay, okay. I know I’ve got the fear over your talking in one year,” got the creative in the other and I’ve got to really find ways to block that out. I think one of the ways you do that of course is to surround yourself with really successful people because they can always help you through it.

JM: You’re reading my mind. That was my next question for you. At that time that you were making that transition, that is something that I’ve had to learn and relearn many times in my life, because it has been hard for me to ask for help. I grew up in a situation where I felt like I had to be very independent at a young age—which it has definitely its positives but it’s got its negatives—so I had to learn overtime that you have to ask for help especially with a big new endeavor. Did you find yourself working with a coach? Were you dating your husband? Was he a part of that support system for you?

JC: Oh, yeah. My husband has just always been a huge supporter of anything I’ve ever wanted to do. I highly suggest, you surround yourself with those types of people. He was always positive with my ideas. I had a great network of friends, and yes, of course, I had a coach. I’ve always, I’ve had coaches for many coaches over the years. Because we all need thinking partners. Everybody needs a thinking partner. By the way, even as supportive as your family might be, they’re not always the right people to be your thinking partner, especially if you’re an entrepreneur and most of the people in your family have been employed.

JM: Right. That is challenging for a lot of entrepreneurs.

JC: Yup. And I also want to say, one other things, Jenn, because I don’t want people to think, “Oh, she just had this great community around her which I did,” but I want to say that I also had gone through different phases in my entrepreneurial journey where I have had to eliminate people from my life.

JM: Ooh, that’s good. Let’s talk about that for a minute. When you talk about eliminating people, for us, a lot of times, I think as an entrepreneur, the natural tendency is to go to places like having to eliminate maybe a business partner, an employee, or maybe even a client, what were some of those cases where you had to eliminate the wrong people?

JC: I started to sense when I was around certain friends that they were a little toxic, they were negative, it’s sort of I would say something positive and there would be this, what I used to call, the downward style conversation. I realized that it was zapping my energy, it was taking away from me my excitement and my passion. So I just slowly started allowing those calls to go to voicemail, or not picking up the phone, or taking a little long to answer those emails because I realized that I had to slowly eliminate some of those people from my life.

Honestly, it affected my relationship with my husband at that time a little bit because some of those relationships were with other couples. It wouldn’t be with the both people but maybe one of the couples was just a little negative and I said, “You know, I just don’t want to have dinner with those people anymore.” It’s something that I had to work through but it’s really critical for entrepreneurs to eliminate as much as that is possible.

JM: I love that. I wonder if you have had this experience. Something that I started to talk with one of my clients about recently, I think we are so surrounded by media at this point. It’s kind of like being in a jam packed room and so feeling like you’re all alone. There’s Facebook, and there’s Twitter, and you’re getting emails all the time. But I think there’s still sometimes, such a lack of meaningful connection, especially as an entrepreneur, I think you bring up a very good point that a lot of times it’s hard to find those other like minded entrepreneurs, especially as a successful women, finding where is your group of people, where is that support system. But I think that this particular client, the conversation we had, I think that sometimes we are reluctant to talk about it but there is that jealousy factor, I just turned 40 and I would like to think of my friends who are my peers who’s moved past little school, but there is still kind of that jealousy factor and it’s hard to talk about because it’s kind of that, “Oh, wow. What? Are you hot shit?” You kind of feel weird talking about these things like, “Oh, you’re so special.” But I think that sometimes it is really hard when you are self-actualizing and you are fulfilling something that is a goal of yours and there are people who get very hung up because they’re not doing that in their own lives. Did you ever have that experience or what is the advice that you have given to your clients who have had that experience?

JC: Yes, yes, it’s true. Here’s an example. I live in a community in Los Angeles, I’m a bit of upset, a bit of a fish out of water for the most part, because the majority of families who live in this community, typically, a lot of the women do not work outside the home, they’re working inside the home. I’m sort of an anomaly. I have many friends, but I have to switch gears, I can’t really talk about my business when I’m in those settings. I have to talk about other things which are the joyable kids, or whatnot, and things that are going out of school. But I’ve had to find other women who are working outside this setting to talk business with. Because we’re on two different place so then there’s no judgment there, it’s just what you know, choosing to be at home or not be at home is absolutely fine. I think it’s actually harder to be at home full time, do you want to know the truth?

JM: Yeah.

JC: Because I know I couldn’t do it.

JM: It comes sometimes some sort of challenges, I did that for a short time before I realized that. And that was right before I started my first business and I thought, “I’m going to go mad if I don’t do something.” But it is, it does have its own set of challenges for sure. It’s just tough sometimes. It’s interesting, I have some very good friends also who are successful entrepreneurs and some very good friends who are successful stay-at-home moms and they’re incredible moms. It’s interesting because I think everybody has a tendency to feel that way, I think that you will have those conversations where they’ve got friends who have to work and wished that they didn’t and then they feel the same way about getting to be the one who’s the stay-at-home mom and feeling odd and looking for that connection too.

JC: Yes, absolutely.

JM: I think it’s so important that you find your group of people. We need that support, we need that connection.

JC: We need that support, we need that connection. The other thing that you brought up which is an important point is how we’re connected on social media. But social media is so isolating because if you’re on social media all day but you’re not really interacting in person with anyone, it still could be quite isolating. I think that it’s essential that we as women get out of our office, away from social media, and actually have lunch with other women who we could talk to or dinner, or go to some networking events, I think that’s really important.

JM: Yup. I think that’s an excellent point. You and I had been talking a little bit before this conversation about my feelings, I think a lot of really successful dynamic women, they tend to be resilient problem solvers, they are successful because they’ve had to overcome some adversity. You had talked a little bit before about your husband going through some health problems, what are some of those kind of watershed moments that really brought you to where you are today? I think it’s very important to look at those times where, life is just so crazy, it’s so difficult these days and we are surrounded by technology, we are surrounded by this need for instant gratification and getting pulled on lots of directions, and certainly there are a lot of women who are prioritizing work, and work is crazier, they’re trying like me trying to balance, and you trying to balance kids and work. I think sometimes we can forget to keep that context that some of those challenges and adversity can be some of the most meaningful experiences that we can leverage to move us forward. But what are some of those experiences for you as you’ve developed your business and your career?

JC: That’s a great question. My husband has polycystic kidney disease. In 2009 he needed a kidney transplant and he was on the list, but he was very far down, it’s going to be a long time, and he was very ill. I got tested and I was a match.

JM: Wow. What were the odds of that? Was that surprising to you?

JC: It wasn’t. When I went, I told the nurse, “I’m a match.”

JM: You just knew?

JC: I knew. I knew I was a match. I knew I was going to be a match. Now, that’s just the first step, a broader test he have to go through. But in any case, on December 1st, 2009, I donated one of my kidneys to my husband and he’s doing very, very well. My children were very young, my kids were seven and nine.

JM: How did you do that with little kids at home? You’re both physically in the hospital recovering.

JC: Yeah. I had my mother, I was fortunate I had my mother and my sister, we’re very opposite, I’ve always been the entrepreneur, my sister is a very successful corporate gal, but she was able to get the time off from work. So my mom and my sister came out and they took care of my kids. We were both recovering, we were both in the hospital, it was a very tenuous time in our lives, long recoveries, but we got through it.

That time of my life, what that taught me is that it’s really kind of critical that you do what you love because tomorrow is not promised to you. When it comes to raising children and having a business, I’m a big believer in quality not quantity. I’ve always believed that, it’s about the quality time to spend with our children, not quantity. I set up really quality moments with my kids but I’m certainly not there for them every minute of the day because most of the time they are at school. But I’m busy working sometimes when they come home even though I feel so grateful, Jenn, I do work out of my house. That was one of the reasons why I went into this profession 13 years ago was because the other business kept me flying and traveling internationally all of the time. This was a business that I could work around being a mom and that is really important to me.

JM: And be there.

JC: Yeah.

JM: That’s amazing. That’s a watershed moment. That’s amazing. That brings me to my next question. I relate so much to your story and wanting to make sure that you’ve got that balance. It’s tough, a big topic of conversation and we have two bright boys who are 7 and 11 now and they know all the right buttons to push. And lately, the button that we’re pushing is, “Oh, you’re on your phone again,” and “Oh, you’re on your computer again.” We’re trying very hard compartmentalize our time. I have an office that is out of home but I do work from home whenever possible. I try to pick them up from school most days. That has been important for me because I really enjoy that ride home from school. It’s kind of those first two where it’s like, “How did your day go?” And you know when things went well or they didn’t go well. But then we get home and the work day is now over. Things are still moving along until 5:00 in the afternoon.

That has been this hot topic of conversation in our home is how do we find that balance, how do we help our kids to understand that we’ve got this luxury of flexibility that traditionally a lot of working women have not had, but still making them feel like we are present when we’re with them. How have you managed to do that with your family and with your kids and finding that balance? How do you find the time for yourself? You’re super successful, you’re super busy, I know from being in that room with your audience, with your clients, when they need you, you’re available to them. How do you do all of that and still manage to make your kids feel like a priority, make your husband feel like a priority and then manage to work in self-care?

JC: Yeah. I can give you definitely some of what I’ve done. I’m very big with boundaries, when I say the word, I know it’s off-putting. People don’t like that word, because boundaries is a word where it’s like—

JM: It feels confrontational, doesn’t it?

JC: Right. It feels confrontational.

JM: We talk about boundaries when we need to lay down the law.

JC: Right. Boundaries are important to me. The way I structure my boundaries, Jenn, is when my kids go up for the school, here’s what I know, I know that from 7:30 in the morning, until around 3:00 in the afternoon, I got to make a lot of stuff happen because once they come home, there’s not going to be a lot of time. The one thing that I do is I make sure that my highest priority item, the income producing makes the client happy items are done first thing. I don’t delay, I make sure that all those important things are really done when I know I have that space of time that won’t be interrupted. I’ve always said I’m a the magic maker in the morning and a manager in the afternoon.

But in the afternoon, if I do have to answer the random emails, and that type of communication, that’s something I can do with my kids being around but anything that’s really high level or high impact, I always do that while they’re at school. That’s the first thing so I don’t feel frustrated when they get home that I didn’t—

JM: That’s a great point.

JC: Yeah, get that done. Then I guess the other thing is this, we have a “no phones on” rule at dinner, even for the parents, no one’s allowed to open their phone.

JM: We have been instituting that too and I have to ask you the question, do you find it hard to abide by? Because I will be completely honest, my background is social media, my first company is social media company. I do want to also share this, so you made it a point at your conference to talk about how you had turned the notifications off of your phone. At first, it was like a drug addict, I was like, “You want to take away what? What do you mean no notifications?” But I thought, now I had a little assistance because the taptic engine in my iPhone is shut, and it was making this horrible noise every time I would get a notification. It was driving me crazy, driving other people crazy. Right after I left your conference, and I thought, “I’m going to turn off the notifications.” First it was more utilitarian and needing to turn off this terrible noise but it really like your words rang in my ears about not getting notifications and it’s been life changing because it’s all still there. I’m still checking it regularly, it’s all still there but it’s not ruling my life when I’m looking at my phone every 30 seconds getting notifications.

But I will tell you, part of the challenge for us is as our kids get older and they have iPads, and one of them has an iPhone for when he is away from us. He uses that for emergencies only, he’s not allowed to use it unless there’s an emergency. But everybody wants to fiddle with the iPad and see what the notification is. My older one is on fifth grade and getting to that age where people are texting. But I often find that I’m the one that’s having a hard time abiding by that. Do you find that? You seem pretty in control of your technology.

JC: I don’t. I don’t have a hard time with it. I’m able to just turn off the ringer and leave the phone in the kitchen. I’m good about that. How am I good about that? I’ll tell you Jenn, we talked about this at my conference at my Align event, it also has to do also with me and mastering my energy levels. When I have the energy for certain things. I’m a morning person and I’m really just watching my client work, my client calls, my team calls, my social media, I watch all of that from about 5:30 in the morning until around 6:30 in the evening. But then I really do let go, I let go at 6:30—

JM: And really disconnect.

JC: And just disconnect because I find that I just don’t have the mental energy for it anymore. It’s been helpful to me. The other thing we do is we make our kids, we have all of our charging stations not in the bedrooms. Everybody has to leave their phones upstairs to charge when they go to bed at night.

JM: I think that’s brilliant. We recently did that too and it was interesting, all the fun noises and times and things that we first discovered overnight when we first did that. But I think it’s so good it makes everybody accountable to the process, it’s time to shut down at night.

JC: Yeah. I think so too. Funny, you asked me about finding time for myself. I go on a very long walk with my dog after the kids leave for school. My dog and I take a very long walk, about an hour every morning, at a nature, it feels very nurturing to me.

The other thing that I do, which is probably going to set something people listening on ear here, every quarter, I do go away overnight to hotel by myself to really think. My family, it’s something that I’ve had to teach them, train and retrain, because everytime I’m going to do it, nobody wants me to do it, but I do it. Because I needed to get to think on that higher level.

JM: Why is that so hard do you think for people to accept that? Is it that kind of the sky is falling because mom is not there. For me, I resist, as much as I go away to conferences, when I was away at the Align Retreat visiting you in California, it was amazing for me because it felt like a recharge and I got my creative juices flowing and I might have visited the spa while I was there. But it was a really great experience and yet I felt guilty, my husband is super supportive and certainly it’s not anything he’s ever said or done, but I feel like maybe this comes off as sort of selfish. Why do you think that’s so tough for women to do?

JC: I think partly because, Jenn, we’re nurturers by nature and women typically hold the family unit together in most cases. When mom is not home, things tend to not go as well. But we need it, we as women need this time to ourselves, to recharge because we are we, because we are the matriarchs, because we do hold it all together. I know when I go and when I come back that everything’s going to be crazy. I’ll tell you a funny story, once, I found a dirty diaper in my dishwasher. That’s just one example. It’s like, “Okay, I don’t have this.”

JM: Like, “What the heck happened?”

JC: Yeah, things go a little crazy but I’m not gone that long and so we come back and we get back together. But I think women feel guilty because we’re nurturers and we always say yes to people typically. We always put ourselves last on the to-do list. There isn’t a woman listening to this or any woman that we meet, most women we put ourselves last and I used to put myself last. I don’t want anyone listening to this call thinking, “Oh, my gosh, how did she know all these things?” I didn’t know. I was a yes person, I said the yes in my 20s, I said yes in my 30s. Then something happened to me when I turned 40. I just woke up and I thought, “You know what? I don’t need to say yes to all these things.” I started creating better boundaries in my 40s.

JM: How empowering. That’s huge, you don’t have to say yes to everything. It’s interesting, I read this study recently and of course the source is escaping me. But I read this study and I think a lot of times, we see studies that reflect the work, that time spent working inside the home and outside of the home between men and women, but this particular study focused on the mental investment that women make. All the things that we’re doing, managing calendars, running kids around, as we’re falling asleep at night, we’re thinking of the 15 things we didn’t get done, remembering birthdays and anniversaries, the mental grocery list and all the things that need to be done. I think that sometimes, it’s hard because, maybe not always, but often times I think that women tend to be that person within the family. There is that reluctance to leave or walk away.

For me, it’s not about things falling apart when I’m gone. My husband is so capable then I give him so much credit because most of the time, when I leave, not only do things go just fine, his finding little projects to surprise me when I come home to show me how well things have gotten. He’s so, so good about that. But I think, for me, gosh, I have to say like I almost think—it’s for me personally, and I wonder if anybody listening relates to this—there’s almost that little ego like I have to be here for things to go well. That has been really hard for me to have to really examine that because he is super capable and I take that away from him by treating him like the wheels are falling off for me leave.

For me, I think that the real resistance is probably the emotional pole, having two little boys, wanting to know where mom is—and dad, if dad was gone too, it would be the same thing—but I have had to really look at that responsibility that I’m putting on my own shoulders and why I’m doing that.

JC: You know what? I think that we all go through that, you’re not alone there, Jenn. I think that we as mothers think that, because we typically are the tie that binds and we hold it altogether, we feel like we do have to be here and that is our ego saying to hold it all together. In fact, I get along just fine, maybe they eat a little bit more fast food, or they go to bed a little bit later, or they don’t brush their teeth.

JM: Had pizza a couple nights.

JC: One thing that I’ve learned, which I didn’t realized what a benefit this was like it was an extra benefit is that, the kids having their time alone with their dad is really fantastic.

JM: I totally agree. That extra time to just be together and be alone. Absolutely, good points. Let’s bring it back to business, I feel like I have a million questions and unfortunately we’re going to be out of time very soon so I’m going to just pick a couple of things while I have you. At the end, I would like to make sure that you share your website and anything special coming up that you would like people to know about because you’re just amazing. I have really enjoyed getting to know you and listening to what you have to share. Your conference was so good, I was on conference burned out for a while and really didn’t want to go to a lot of things, but when you invited me, I knew that it was going to be a yes. I’m so, so glad that I went. It was really time well spent, super valuable.

With catalyst, I focus with women on looking at their personal brands. What I have found is that we really have to look at both our self image and our public image, specially it seems like for women, if we don’t feel good about how something looks, if we don’t like our headshots, if we’re not pleased with the website, if the messaging on social media doesn’t feel accurate or right as a personal brand, it’s really hard for us to put ourselves out there. Can you provide some tips, or some of the things that you are talking to your clients about in terms of really locking that in, honing that in, how do you put together a personal brand that feels good? Do you see that that kind of bleeds over into other parts of their lives that they need to fix when you’re coaching them?

JC: Oh, it does. It absolutely does. Because of social media and because of the online world, we are on this place, if you will, a lot of times 24/7. Your professional brand for your company has to align with the personal brand. And because, as I say to my clients, if there’s some confusion going on between the personal and the professional brand, you will never make as many sales or do as well as you could potentially do because a confused mind says no. If they’re confused about you or your brand, they won’t buy from you because they’re not sure yet they can trust the brand.

I always say to clients that they do need to really look deeply and work with someone like yourself Jenn, who does this type of work, look deeply with that person, that adviser, on all components of your life both the company, what your messaging is, let’s also look at how is that weaving into your lifestyle and your personal life and how people perceive you. It’s mission critical to have that in your brand all the way across that it needs to be kind of seamless.

When I say that, I don’t want a woman listening to this podcast to get the wrong idea. I don’t mean that you always have to be dressed to the nines because you’ll see me walking my dogs if you follow me on social media and I will be in my uggs and my hair will be as crunchy, I’m walking my dog for goodness sake. But when I’m going out to a conference or to speak, or to see a client, or some opportunity, I’m always going to be dressed appropriately. This is something I see with a lot of women entrepreneurs, is they would just tweak and take that extra step, they would see a major difference in their revenues and sales by just pulling that brand together and nicely so the people can really get a sense of who you are.

JM: Absolutely. I think there’s so much value like you say when you’re walking your dog and you’re wearing uggs, it’s so tough because on social media, I think anytime we, as human beings, lose a degree of control, it’s super frightening. I think when we’re looking at the online world, you don’t control the social environment when you put something out there, and what you put out there becomes paramount because you don’t control what happens once it’s out there, you don’t control the reaction at that point.

I love that you are so real, you’re such a real, authentic, down-to-earth person. I think it’s important for people to see you in both of those ways, you are human being, you do have time off, you do get exercise, and go out and walk your dog. But at the same time, anytime I’ve ever seen you in a professional environment—I think the first time I met you was like, “Oh, my gosh, I love your outfit,” but you always do look so polished and so amazing, it was one of the first things—and not that the way somebody looks as the most important thing, certainly not. I know a lot of very cool people and their signature is not to have a polished look, but I think, certainly, you can have an edgier look and still have it look very pulled together and very intentional. But that is something I didn’t notice about you right away. It does carry through, and I see that on a polished website and polished social media messages that you are putting out there.

JC: Yeah, it is important. People who know me well know that. I’ll be honest with you, I can go into the grocery store after I’ve been through a meeting or go to a school event, and I’ll be dressed. I got to tell you, sometimes people will look at me like, “Wow, Joy is that,” I went and took my dad on to see the physical therapist and she’s like, “Oh, my gosh, Joy, there you are, you’re in work mode.” Because they always see me in my uggs, and my sweat shirt and my hair up.

JM: It’s like seeing another side of you.

JC: Yeah. But I’m still the same person. That’s the difference, my clothes are different but I am exactly the same all the way through. Here’s the funny thing, people who know me, I’ll tell you, you would never find me in makeup, except when I’m going out to some sort of an event. I never wear makeup at home or to the grocery store.

JM: Oh, that’s funny, you see, I have a face on 24 hours a day. I love it.

JC: I have plenty of friends who were that way as well, but it’s just who I am.

JM: Who you are, it’s all antique to who you are, yup.

JC: Yeah.

JM: That’s awesome.

JC: I mean, God, I could get the same makeup, Jenn. I think I could probably get makeup and it would last like four years.

JM: That’s so funny. I feel like I could just ask you questions and go on and on forever but we don’t have unlimited time. Your website is, is that the best place for people to find you?

JC: Yes, they can find me at or they can also just type—either way, both will get you there. I’m very, very active on Facebook, I’m active on all the social media channels, but I really love my page on Facebook and Instagram.

We don’t have anything coming up right now. I have my own podcast, if anyone wants to listen, it’s on iTunes and Stitcher, She’s Got Moxie. Jenn, I just loved this conversation, loved to be on the show, really, I love everything you’re doing.

JM: Thank you so much for your time, Joy. I’m glad you mentioned the podcast, so your podcast was just named in the top 100 in the business category, is that right?

JC: Yeah. We were so excited

JM: Congratulations.

JC: iTunes, so, so excited about that. But yes, thank you for mentioning that. I have totally enjoyed getting to know you, you’ve got that beautiful high-watt smile and just a high energy person, you’re doing such great work with women and I always want to be connected to women who are helping other women.

JM: Same here and thank you so much for your time, Joy. I appreciate it.

JC: You’re so welcome.