Many of my clients are established businesswomen who bootstrapped their way to success. Many did it without money, a plan, a trademark or… a business lawyer. When many of them started their businesses, finding and paying an attorney might not have been at the top of their list of priorities, but here is why it’s essential to remedy this if you don’t have one. You must protect what you’ve created.

Ideally, somewhere between ‘creating a business plan’ and ‘executing that plan,’ you’re talking to a business lawyer. That way, you’ll get solid advice on business formation, which business entity is right, and how to protect what you’ve created. Salma Bekabbou, the Millennial Biz Lawyer, is going to tell you everything you need to know.

Why you need a intellectual property lawyer

  • when and why you need to hire a business lawyer
  • how to protect your business from the start
  • what kind of lawyer you need
  • the 4 types of intellectual properties that you need to know
  • the verbiage you need to add to your texts, emails, and chats so that you aren’t entering into an unintentional contract
  • how contracts protect you and your business

Her insights on contracts will change the way you do business, she tells us “sometimes, people negotiate via emails or text messages, or even sometimes verbally. You might find that you actually entered into a legally binding agreement without even realizing it.” Listen to learn the simple way to protect yourself in this situation.

Connect with Salma Benkabbou

Accelerate lasting success through harmony of mind, body, soul, and business

Transcript

Today I got to speak with Salma Benkabbou who is The Millennial Business Lawyer. She’s the Managing Attorney and Lead Legal Strategist for The Benkabbou Law Firm in Tampa, so very close to my hometown. I love her tagline, she helps entrepreneurs protect their creative greatness. We had some great conversations about why you need a business attorney. And ideal timing is, I don’t know if you know this, aggressive, excited entrepreneur is out there, you want a business plan, then you want to consult your attorney, then you want to execute. Some of us have gotten a little backwards.

That said, a great attorney is going to help protect you and keep you out of litigation because it costs a lot less to prevent through having the correct business formation, sound contracts, protecting your trademarks, copyrights, trade secrets, all that good stuff, and not have to go into litigation.

I talk with Salma a little bit about finding a great attorney. We also talk about some of her struggles with her social media. I found her through Instagram because she does a terrific job. But it wasn’t always so easy for her and in industry that is dominated by men where she is often times mistaken for the secretary and not the managing attorney. We talk a little bit about what it’s like to break out of that stereotype and really be intelligent and polished young woman that she is. I hope you enjoy this interview, I think she is fabulous and I hope you get a chance to visit her Instagram and her website.

JM: Hi, Salma. How are you?

SB: Hi, I’m doing great. Thank you. How are you?

JM: I’m good, thanks for making some time for us today. I’m super excited to talk with you.

SB: Of course. It’s my pleasure.

JM: Let’s talk a little bit about how I even met you. I haven’t actually met you yet, hopefully at some point in the future I will because you are close to my hometown because I grew up in South Florida. Hopefully, I’ll get to meet you at some point. But I found you on Instagram, kudos to you, you have an incredible Instagram account.

SB: Thank you, thank you.

JM: Tell everyone your Instagram handle so they can go see your account.

SB: Sure, it’s @millennialbizlawyer.

JM: Perfect. You have great pictures. We will talk a little bit about your Instagram and your social media because I found it so appealing. You’ve done such a great job of really authentically being yourself which is so important in social media these days. But why don’t you talk a little bit about what you do?

SB: Sure. I’m The Millennial Business Lawyer. I’m licensed in three states, Florida, North Carolina, and New Jersey. I primarily help entrepreneurs protect their creative greatness. Typically we do that through business formations, contracts, and [self 00:02:37] IP such as trademarks, copyrights, and trade secrets.

JM: I love that. Did you have one of those stories where growing up, that was kind of what you always wanted to do or how did you discover your passion for that?

SB: I knew I always wanted to be an attorney. My father was actually an attorney back in my home country of Morocco. I’ve always been fascinated with just the law and understanding how to protect people. For me, growing up, I was always that annoying kid that stood up for other kids. I really shied away from bullying and things of that sort. I’ve always been an advocate, it’s been part of my personality. But choosing business focus is been something that honestly kind of creep up on me. I never thought that I would want to do it on my own. But seeing that how people are just very creative and I’m such a free spirit, it was kind of a happy marriage along with my proactive personality to be able to help people protect what they worked so hard to create and being an advocate for their art and all of their creative greatness. It just seems to be like a perfect fit and it just feels right for me.

JM: I love that. You’ve done an incredible job of branding yourself. I love millennial business lawyers is your brand, your trademark. Talk to me a little bit about why that was important to you to really kind of emphasize or highlight millennial?

SB: Yeah, absolutely. Being a millennial, typically, we’re in that age of DIY for a lot of things. But also I wanted to be accessible to my generation, represent them, and reach them where they’re at. Essentially, as millennials, we’re changing the world with social media, there are people that are making in the seven figures by using Instagram and Facebook and so forth. What I saw was that there is a gap in their representation and I would see a lot of intellectual property infringements and things that they could put in place to properly protect themselves. But I also understood that for them, understanding the image that they have of an attorney is typically not what I would look like. For a while, I myself even struggled with that, trying to fit that part. It felt as though a part of me was dying and I didn’t feel like it really fit me, I failed miserably at it. The whole suits and the typical lawyer image—

JM: Yeah, looking into your Instagram, it’s not who you are at all.

SB: At all.

JM: I found it really interesting because we talked a little bit earlier before this call and I found it really interesting that you struggled. My other company is a social media company. When I am out on social media and I see somebody who’s really killing it, doing a fantastic job, I take note, and looking at your Instagram, it feels very personal. You are gorgeous, warm, you have a very positive message, everything is very polished. But you’re right, I wouldn’t necessarily look at that and be like, “Oh, this is a business attorney.” You had told me a little bit about some of those struggles you had with finding your authenticity. What was that like when you started? Were you trying to fit that mold?

SB: Yeah. Even being a woman, I think it hit me on law school when a lot of times, people didn’t even think that I would be in law school. When I would go to events, they would automatically assume I was either the secretary or a paralegal. I never got the title of an attorney and that’s because my look has always just been unconventional. It’s a male-dominated profession as well. Being a woman puts me at a disadvantage. But for me I try to, I guess you can say, downplay my image because I didn’t want people to focus on my image and more so on my substance. But what I found is that it didn’t matter. It didn’t matter what I had on, it didn’t matter how I presented myself. It was only an issue for me because people still perceived me the same. I was still getting mistaken for legal secretary, paralegal, even I was an attorney.

JM: How do you respond to that? How do you deal with that when that happens?

SB: To be honest with you, I have fun with it. If I’m at events and they say, “Oh, you’re here on behalf of the attorney?” “Yes. I’m here on behalf of Ms. Benkabbou.” I just kind of play along with it because for me, for people who are not well-versed or who are not diverse, it’s kind of hard at this age to really try to explain to them diversity in that sense. I just have fun with it and I don’t let it bother me anymore. I think it’s funny.

JM: Good for you. I have a hard time laughing these things off even to this day. I admire you, my hats off.

SB: It used to bother me, yeah. It used to hurt my feelings because you worked so hard to get to where you’re at only to be downplayed.

JM: Right, not acknowledged.

SB: Right, exactly.

JM: What was the turning point for you and your marketing where you’re just like, “Forget it,” like, “Damn if I do, damn if I don’t. I’m just going to do me,” when did you get to that point?

SB: It’s kind of funny because I was trying the whole method of giving these photos with legal tips here and there. I realized, no one really cared. Honestly, I just scared people because it just made them think of all the things that they didn’t consider. I wanted people to be able to know who I am and with working with my clients that saw me on a regular basis, they would always say, “You really should use your image and who you are as a part of your business.” For me, I shied away from it because I just didn’t want people to not take me seriously. But then, they said, “Really honestly, who you are is why we keep coming back. Because essentially, we can get legal services from anywhere. But it’s essentially the person that you are is why we’re here.” I said, “Okay. It could just be another thing that I fail at but what do I have to lose?” I just rebranded and decided to be myself and I have not looked back. It’s just been such a great ride.

JM: I love that. One of the things you and I had talked about previously was how my advice to a lot of our clients—on the catalyst side, the vast majority of our clients are personal brands—is what we focus on but on. My company, red balloon social media, we work with diverse, wide-ranging group of businesses and different industries across many verticals. There’s a lot of variety there.

Over the years, I started my company in 2005 when social media was like brands pink and new. Over time, what I’m really starting to find is that those brands that excel tend to be those that mimic personal brands. They’re either personal brands that are executed really well and they feel very personal. You feel like you’re getting to know somebody or they’re corporate brands that really highlight the people within the business and really humanize their business. I definitely think you’re doing it right. I love your Instagram, you’ve done a great job with it.

SB: Thank you.

JM: Yeah, absolutely. One of the other things that we talked about that I thought was very interesting was what it’s like to be completely self-employed, as how you describe it. It was a fun conversation because we talked about what it’s like when you are really starting your business and you don’t have somebody to fall back on. It’s like you don’t have a family to support you, you don’t have a spouse that’s going to supplement your income, you are not independently wealthy like you are starting out on your own. You started your firm in 2014, what was that like?

SB: Honestly, it was scary. But the funny part is that what scared me even more is putting my career or my livelihood in someone else’s hands. The idea of working on endlessly for a firm for the rest of my life just scared me more than just going out there on my own. Another thing too is that I’m an immigrant from Morocco. I have hit rock bottom in how to restart. It wasn’t anything new to me or foreign to me.

JM: You’d already done it.

SB: Right. I had already done it. For me, it was definitely scary. Entrepreneurship is not these sexy memes you see on Instagram, it’s a lot deeper than that. It’s a struggle and it has many challenges. We all go through the same challenges, honestly. But I just knew that I was making the right choice when I wanted to do something that was for a greater purpose in myself. I wanted to help day-to-day people, I wanted to be on the fun side of the law, protecting my client’s right. I wanted to be authentic and to really be a happy attorney because a lot of times if you’re not fulfilled in what you’re doing, you’re probably not going to be great at it. It’s not something that you’re passionate about. I just wanted to be honest with myself. To me, it didn’t matter, the money aspect wasn’t really what I was chasing, it was more so the freedom. Keeping that in mind and having that as my motivation just made everything just flow through. Of course, I’m a faith-based person so I trust in God wholeheartedly and you really have to trust in something greater than yourself to really get yourself through.

JM: Absolutely. Like you say, being part of something much bigger. That passion makes you persevere and it makes you much more persistent as an entrepreneur. If you are not attached to your mission emotionally and really dedicated to it, it is really hard to be resilient to the ups and downs, it’s like a roller coaster. It’s so funny that you say that you have more fear around being somebody’s employee and tying your fate to somebody else’s decision making then what it would be like to start a business and maybe have it not go well and have to go through the stresses of entrepreneurship. My husband and I are both self-employed and we laugh that we are unemployable now. If these businesses went away, we’d be in trouble. It’s good motivation to keep things going.

Talk to us now a little bit about some advice that you might have. I know this is an actual legal advice so if there are any disclaimers that you need to give—but just in terms of your perspective and your experience, what are some of the top things that women entrepreneurs really need to be looking out for from a legal perspective in their businesses?

SB: Sure. First things first, anything that requires a license to do is not a DIY project. That’s something that I see that a lot of new entrepreneurs doing, they rely on a lot of cookie cutter, lego kids, or tutorial or anything of that nature.

JM: Stuff you find on Pinterest.

SB: Right, right. Even if it comes from an attorney, be very wary of it because there is no one size fits all. For me, and my clients, even sometimes in the same industry they might have different needs. It’s very dangerous to just rely on a DIY, you really don’t know what you’re missing until something does happen. The worst thing you can do is DIY any legal matters. Just make the investment and protect yourself accordingly.

The other thing that I would highly recommend that people really learn about is intellectual property. A lot of times, especially with new entrepreneurs, they don’t really understand it, they don’t know their differences, they don’t know when it’s time to protect it. Typically what they’ll do is they’ll wait until they start to generate a lot of revenue where they see, “Okay, now I can afford an attorney,” when in fact, you really cannot afford not to hire an attorney literally from the time you’re finished with your business plan and right before you start executing.

The law can really work to protect you or it can work against you. The law applies at every single stage, even from when you’re choosing your business name, even from when you’re branding. I see a lot of people that lose a lot of money on their marketing efforts because they fail to protect their trademarks and not really understand—

JM: That’s a really good point. What are some of those milestones from when you should be bringing an attorney into your business?

SB: Sure. The ideal time to bring in an attorney is right after you’re done with your business plan and right before you start executing. When my clients see me at that particular stage, I’m able to look at their business plans, and I’m able to advise them accordingly from business formation, which business entity is right for them, the formalities that go along with that business entity. Because it’s so much more than just registering with your secretary of state.

Then we also discuss the choosing the name of the company because if it’s also going to represent your brand and could qualify for a trademark, it has to be something that’s eligible for protection and registration. That analysis is different than you figuring out if the name is eligible for registration as an LOC for example. It might be eligible on your state, but then if it comes time for branding, if you’re using it for your website, for all of your marketing materials, then you’re going to have to rebrand—if in the event we find that is not eligible for registration.

Trademarks are so much more than what people make them [ought 00:16:03] to be, it’s really not simple. A simple Google search is not enough. I’ve had clients come to me and say, “I searched for it on Google and no one had the exact same name.” When in fact, there’s various ways that that can go. There’s so many things that happen before we even file the application. I won’t bore you with the legalist but from a general perspective, make sure that you’re choosing a name that can qualify for trademark protection as well as be eligible for registration as a legal business entity in your state. It’s multi-layers.

JM: Is that something an attorney can do for you before you really get started? If you can sue somebody and say, “Hey, I want you to do a search.” And you can go out there and say, “Yup, it looks like this one would be eligible.”

SB: Typically, yes, that’s how it works. What I do for my clients is when they come to me at that beginning stage I say, “I have to do a comprehensive search, see if this name is eligible for registration under the USPTO.” It’s just not looking at the USPTO, it’s also looking at social media, and their common law as well. Because sometimes, people will use a name and not register it under the USPTO. I need to make sure that it’s eligible for protection federally. And then from there, I write a legal memo explaining to them if there’s any hurdles or if they could possibly be infringing on someone else’s trademark. Then if I give the go ahead, at that point, they can start with their marketing so they can start on the right foot. Once they start using it, at that point, we would file.

But there are various things that you can do depending on your business plan. But if you come to me after you’ve already started with your branding, your website is up, you’re using all of your resources towards marketing—and I understand how important it is—then at that point, it’s more so, let’s cross our fingers, because we’re not sure if you have to rebrand or not. The process is so long. If you’re coming to me a year later, it’s going to take an additional 9–12 months to get a registration to begin with.

JM: Oh, okay. I didn’t know it took that long. That’s interesting. What are some of the things within intellectual property? There’s your logo, there’s a tagline, what other things are considered intellectual property that somebody would want to protect?

SB: Sure, there’s four types of intellectual properties, there’s trademarks, copyrights, trade secrets, and patents. Some companies or businesses need all of them, some businesses only need one. But every business has a trademark. Trademarks can be in the form of name, slogan, your logo, color scheme, particular scents. Some qualify for trade dress applications which is packaging, or any identifying feature of your brand could qualify for a trademark.

JM: Even your scent, huh? Is that for cosmetics?

SB: Yes, as well as if there’s a particular scent that identifies your brand. For example, there’s this company that sells flip-flops and they’ve actually registered coconut scent with their flip-flops. When you go into the store, you’ll smell coconuts, and that’s how the consumer is going to recognize if that brand is in the store.

JM: It’s coconut scent protected just in their industry. Where, how does that work?

SB: Correct.

JM: Interesting.

SB: There are 45 international classes that a business can qualify to register their trademarks under. Typically most businesses are between 1–2, some 3 or 4. If you get to that four-some you’re probably dealing with way too many different industries and you probably should separate your company. There are 45 classes. As long as you’re within your relevant market and you’re not infringing on someone else’s trademark, typically, you’re able to register your brand under that clause. Also, it was back to that Google search.

Sometimes, even if you find an exact name search, you might not be infringing, if it’s not within your relevant market or that registration class. For example, the Dove brand. We have Dove soap and we also have Dove chocolate. They’re just called exactly the same but they co-exist because they serve two separate markets. The idea is that the law essentially protects the consumer from being confused. We want to make sure that the consumer is not purchasing a knockoff. A reasonable consumer is not going to assume that the Dove company that sells soap is the same company that sells a chocolate, you’re going to automatically [going to separate. 00:20:42]

JM: That is so interesting. This is why you need an attorney. The things that you’re mentioning over there, 45 classes, basically, you can have these same names in different industries but it’s there to protect the consumer from confusion. It’s amazing how much there is to it.

What are your suggestions then in terms of, let’s say somebody is listening and they think, “Oh, my gosh. I don’t have a business attorney. I obviously need to go put this into place.” Or, “I have somebody and based on this conversation, I’m not feeling confident,” what are some of the questions you would ask to make sure that you’re getting a good attorney?

SB: You want to make sure that you have an attorney that is well-versed in business law as well as intellectual property. Because they go hand in hand in business. You want to make sure that at your consultation, they’re not only advising you just on business formation, or just on trademarks. Be very mindful of that. There are attorneys who just focus on one area like I’ve seen trademark attorneys, I have seen just copyright attorneys, they’re not going to protect your entire business because they’re not well-versed in all of the business issues. You want to make sure, you choose one that can handle both matters. You also want to choose one that you can trust. It’s a service based industry and you have to be able to trust your attorney so that you feel comfortable because we carry a lot of responsibilities. If you’re second-guessing your attorney and you’re not feeling comfortable, it’s okay to go ahead and hire someone else. In fact, you should. You want to make sure that that person fully cares about your business as well, they’re not just in it for the money aspect of it, and that they’re properly guiding you, and they want to help you scale your business.

For me, I really focus on that and I help my clients scale their businesses with IP. I educate them on the business process of things. You want someone that’s versed in business in general. For me, I think, what gives me an advantage is having my own business. I understand your struggles, I understand budgeting. I know how to make my fees to where it makes it a budget for you. A lot of my fees are flat fees so you’re able to allocate money to decide for them. If you need a payment plan, I allow my clients to take full advantage of that if they need to. Because for me, I want to help you and I want to protect your business. I know that a lot of people use their life savings sometimes to start this business and if it fails because you missed something that could have been completely avoidable. I take it personal. It really does affect me personally because I understand how that can feel.

JM: I love your commitment to your clients. It genuinely comes through the fact that you really relate and understand what they’re going through and how they’re trying to grow their business That is so important is to find somebody that you connect with on that level. If that attorney is going to be the person that you lean on and you trust them to protect you, I think that that connection is penultimate, it’s so important.

SB: Absolutely, yeah. And you want an attorney that is not going to kill your business deals just by focusing solely on the legal aspect of things, you want to make sure the business transactions actually go through. If you want to make sure that someone can understand the business side of things as well.

JM: Right, trying to protect yourself but still be able to do business.

SB: Right, right, exactly.

JM: Don’t want to defeat the purpose. Speaking of, I do have one last question, one of the things that you talked about before was contracts and how there are a lot of those templates out there. There’s a lot of DIY, it’s crazy. Whatever you’re looking for, it exists out there on the internet. I think it really is so entrepreneurial spirit, we’re naturally risk takers. I remember when I started my business 13 years ago, as of the time of this recording, there might have been some of those templates floating around of my business. Sometimes, we just have that desire, you have an idea and you need to get revenue coming in and perfect is the enemy of good enough and it’s like you just want to get out there and get it going. But contracts, you say really can shoot you in the foot if you do them wrong. Can you talk a little bit in terms of your perspective on contracts?

SB: Contracts are designed or supposed to be designed to keep you out of court. As you’re going through your business, litigation becomes inevitable. Often times, it comes with your success. There’s always going to be someone on the other side that’s going to find a reason to sue you. Contracts, think of them as an insurance policy. In the event that something goes wrong, I already know what’s going to happen or I already know I’m protected. You have the opportunity to essentially create your own law. If someone sues you or telling the judge which you’ve already agreed to, so you’re not falling back on the state statutes or filling in the blanks where necessary or where you’ve missed a few things because you didn’t properly address that contract and you don’t know what you’re looking for.

The other thing too is that this is the thing that scares me the most, is with NDAs. A lot of times, when you’re just in the startup phase and you’re soliciting investors, sometimes, people will just download an NDA form and they think that they’re protected. They’re very state specific, they’re very industry specific. In fact, sometimes, you can find yourself a file of antitrust laws. You really cannot afford to do those on your own. For one client of mine, I drafted three different types of NDAs because depending on the type of investors, you don’t want to be too protective in certain areas and you don’t want to be too loose in other areas. It really depends on the industry you’re sitting down with, the particular industry that you’re in and whether or not this NDA is considered reasonable not only under state law but also under antitrust laws as well.

JM: That’s a really good point that you bring up. We have had NDAs and non-solicits that we have had to put in place for both members of our team as well as our clients in some cases. We put a lot of time and effort into those agreements. Because a lot of times, you hear these horror stories about how they put this together. Companies and entrepreneurs feel like they’re protected but then the vast majority of that agreement is actually unenforceable when it comes down to it and it’s so important.

SB: Absolutely, definitely. You really just want to make sure that you’re taking your business seriously. Thus, really when it comes down to, if this is not a hobby for you and this is your livelihood, then it behooves you to fully protect it. You don’t want to be a victim of something that could have been avoided. Honestly, litigation is very, very expensive. My flat fees nowhere compare to how much you would have to pay in litigation. You’re often times paying three to five times more what you would pay to get things done correctly.

JM: It’s preventative.

SB: Right, and your contract is only as good as what’s in it. Just because you have something in writing doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re protected. The other thing too is sometimes, people negotiate via emails or text messages, or even sometimes verbally. You might find yourself that you actually entered into a legally binding agreement without even realizing it.

JM: Wow, that’s really interesting. That’s not something that we have explored very much. It’s interesting in today’s day and age so much is happening through direct messaging on social media platforms and like you say text messages and then those verbal agreements. I’m guessing there must have been instances then where those kinds of things are referenced in the court cases so you have to be careful even in those venues.

SB: Absolutely. I mean, I tell my clients how to draft emails and the verbiage that they need to have in there when they’re negotiating deals. I give them verbiage to include in all of their emails to make sure that this is not the final agreement. Because business, you’re just so excited to make the deal happen and you don’t know what the legal implications of your communications can have. For me, I really take no risks with my clients. I’m probably overly protective but to me, I just feel a sense of responsibility in making sure that you’re fully informed.

A huge part of my practice is education, because the more you know, the less mistakes you’re going to make. For me, even as down to how you sign your contracts, I have to tell you how to sign your contracts, I want to make sure that you’re fully protected all around. A lot of times, these things, you’re not going to get from a template. You’re not paying me for a template, I don’t restart out with templates and we tailor it to your specific transaction. It’s kind of funny, I had one of my friends, reach out to me and say, “Hey, do you just have an NDA that I can use?” I was like, “Oh, no. I actually don’t. I don’t have an NDA that you can use,” this is not how this works. What I find is that a lot of these mistakes happen because people just don’t know better. For me, instead of focusing on DIY cookie cutter things that are really unethical in my opinion, I focus on education. It really, really is important for entrepreneurs to really understand how to avoid these legal rookie mistakes that happen because they’re very, very much avoidable. Being very mindful of that even as far as what you use on your social media like if you have a photographer that you work with, if you have someone designing your images, or if you have someone working on your website—I’ll give a quick example of one client that I had. He retained the services of this website, graphic designer. I would say and he allowed him to purchase his domain, create his website design, and he didn’t own the rights to any of it, and he has to pay a yearly fee to keep it.

JM: That, I think is actually probably fairly lucky because we have run into instances where we have clients. Most of our clients come to us after having already worked with other consultants and we see these cases where images are used that are not owned by the designer or somebody doesn’t understand that if it’s not in their contract with their graphic designer or with an advertising agency that they don’t actually own the rights to that work. If you are an agency or you are kind of somebody who’s re-selling the work of contractors, you have to own the rights so that you can convey those rights to their clients. The poor end client many times has no idea, they have no idea.

SB: No clue. They think, “Oh, I paid, for the services. It’s mine”

JM: It doesn’t matter.

SB: No, it doesn’t matter. That’s not how it works.

JM: Yeah, we’ve seen some ugly, ugly thing to come up from that. Thank you so much. It has been enlightening to talk with you. So much good information. Tell us where can people find you online?

SB: Sure. You can find me on Instagram @millennialbizlawyer, you can find me on my law firm, it’s the benkabboulawfirm.com. If you’re interested about learning and finding resources to help you at least understand some of the things that I spoke about today, you can find them at bonsaibusinessplanning.com and it’s full of resources for you, you can essentially just learn some of the things that you will need to consider so you can at least stop on before you actually make these mistakes.

JM: Perfect. That’s great information. I love the emphasis on education and we’ll definitely make sure that those links are available over on the blog that will accompany this podcast. Thank you so much for your time, you’re awesome. I hope the next time I visit Florida, I’ll get to meet up with you. I appreciate your time.

SB: Thank you. Absolutely.