Spirituality for Success

If you’re grasping for deeper meaning in your business, this conversation is for you. Destinee Berman has been called a “soul sister,” “Durga Destinee,” and the secret “visionary” behind today’s most widely recognized online schools in the intuitive arts and spiritual healing spaces. After spending 15 years in Silicon Valley, managing accounts for Twitter and Oracle Marketing Cloud, Destinee left in 2014, answering the call to serve higher and walk her own spiritual path. We discuss:

  • what she did to guarantee she wouldn’t turn back to her corporate job, even when she didn’t have a plan
  • normalizing spirituality for success as part of the business planning process
  • how she recommends bringing more of your own spirituality and intuition into your business
  • how she learned to trust her intuition when making business decisions
  • recognizing our triggers and “feeling through” the issue before reacting

I realized that it took me too long to really get into mentor groups where I’m surrounded by other high-level entrepreneurs. What I found, though, is that they really understand me, and they get me unstuck. As entrepreneurs, we can easily end up in hibernation, and it feels so isolating.  So, I realized that just being surrounded by other entrepreneurs and mentors has helped me feel my creative energy, see possibility, and think bigger, but also think more concretely.

Connect with Destinee

Accelerate lasting success through harmony of mind, body, soul, and business

Transcript

JM: Hi, Destinee. How are you?

DB: I’m good. How are you?

JM: I’m good. I am really looking forward to getting into I think what will be kind of a deep-dive conversation with you. You’ve got a very interesting background.

DB: I’ve been really looking forward to this and I’m excited to see what we end up sharing and connecting on.

JM: I know. It’s going to be good stuff. Tell me a little bit more about what you do. I know a little bit of your background but tell me what you do.

DB: I’m going to do my best to keep this as short. I’ve been in Silicon Valley for fifteen years before I transitioned to having my own business. Currently I’m working with spiritual teachers and healers where we launched their online schools and platforms.

Now I have my own training where I’m working with spiritual business owners to really bring their work online by launching their own education portals, courses, and trainings. I’ve been in modern marketing for a long time and then I made the leap and so here we are.

JM: And here we are just like that. Was that a difficult transition? It’s interesting because in looking at your bio, you worked for some tech giants like Twitter and Oracle Marketing Cloud. How did you make that change? I kind of envision – when I hear Silicon Valley and I hear some of those companies – high pressure, very analytical, how do you make the move from that world to where you are now?

DB: That’s a good question. I made the leap when I found my connecting point. I spent all that time being in tech. I was running social media campaigns first to Florida and I was doing all these stuff where even really social media wasn’t even truly a social media at that time. The last company I was at, the CMO actually invented and coined the term modern marketer before it really became a thing.

Marketing technology automation, all of that was just in my world for so long. Marketing was always in my blood. When I wanted to make the leap, I wasn’t super clear on what was going to be my next thing. At the same time, I’ve been immersed in all these intuitive and spiritual arts, pretty much since I was at childhood. I was born in a refugee camp. My parents are Chinese Cambodians so we’ve always had this reincarnation, working with other dimensions, and healing as part of my childhood. Then as I grew up, I ventured into studying pretty in-depth western astrology, a daily meditation practice, and a regular yoga practice. All of that came into play.

Here we are, this whole tech marketing background, and you’re right, high pressure working with execs and CMOs of all levels, working with different clients, lots of budget to grow. But really, ultimately, I took a look at all of that, I saw the opportunity in the online education space that really has been exploding particularly in the last seven or eight years. I saw the underserved market of all these spiritualists and healers that I’ve been around from pretty much all of my life. Once I worked with a company and just saw that they weren’t really getting the marketing thing and there were so much marketing bias built into the space that they were really missing out on a massive opportunity to get their wisdom out to more people. That’s kind of how I saw the opportunity and how I made the leap.

With my own internal stuff, I had to move through a lot of ups and downs. But from an external perspective, there was more connections than I realized and there is also huge opportunity.

JM: That seems like a big leap to leave a successful career. Were you starting that on the side or did you get to a place where you just said, “Enough is enough, I don’t want to do this anymore. t’s time to follow this other path?” Was that difficult?

DB: Yes and no. I mean, I’ve been doing so much inner cultivation and really strengthening my own discernment and clarity. But I do think that all the meditative intuitive practices do support that.

JM: Wow.

DB: I was immersed in it for months so that I can’t take any phone calls. I was actually about to get a promotion and recruiters were just really hitting me up with the growth of the space here especially modern marketing. I just kind of went all out, immersed myself in the teacher’s training, and just started reaching out to people, talking to people to see what I was going to do next.

JM: You really jumped into the deep ends. That’s crazy.

DB: I did.

JM: So many of the people that I talk to and the clients that I work with, it was such a difficult thing. I think sometimes, if you grow up with parents who are entrepreneurs or if it’s a family business, it’s a little different story. Or I think maybe it comes to you a little bit more naturally but I think anytime you’re leaving a successful career, that is so difficult.

I think it’s really an interesting strategy that you used, that you took this intensive course to really pull yourself out of that. It’s like you kind of knew you’re going to need to immerse yourself in something else to be able to pull yourself out of that path.

DB: Yes, absolutely. I will say that there were two other factors that I think were very important. One, I told myself, “If this didn’t work out given how well things were going in this career and in this space, I can always come back any year and I would be back right where I started making the menials,” and that would have been fantastic and there was no issues there.

Two, I have a very strong husband who, thankfully, is very supportive. When I said I wanted to leave with no plans and truly like no visions, he believed in me and he had faith in me. He saw that I really wanted to do this. Between the inner discernment, the clarity, just knowing that I could definitely go back, and the support of my husband, I don’t think I could have been able to do it if I didn’t have such a strong partnership.

JM: Oh, that’s awesome to hear. The good man make all the difference. I have one of those but sometimes like, “Are you crazy? Are you a glutton for punishment?” So at times like you’ve always had that inner guidance, that connection to your intuition, that spirituality to be your inner compass, did you use a lot of that when you’re in Silicon Valley? Did that play into things? How much of that plays into your business today?

DB: In today, it’s pretty much all of it. Back in the days, I would say I used it covertly, I don’t want to say I was kind of in a spiritual closet, I was pretty open about my passion but it just wasn’t really understood. It’s really division of space for sharing as much about it as I probably could have. I was as open as I could and I did use it in terms of my instincts around, “Is this the deal that’s worthwhile to pursue? Is this the right person to hire?” So absolutely, all of that played in.

Now, when I’m having client meetings through these launch meetings with my clients, we’re pulling oracle cards or we are looking at the astrology chart to select relevant launch dates. Now it’s just immersed in everything.

JM: That’s amazing, that’s really interesting. I am fascinated by astrology and it’s one of the things that I don’t know much about that I really want to learn more – we’ll have to talk later. But how much of that plays into those launch dates? Have you seen that be a successful strategy for clients?

DB: I wish I could say there was one thing that really drive that successful launch. If I had to pick one thing, I would say it’s the pre-launch strategy at the same time it doesn’t hurt and it can only help you have other forces of way. Let’s say we have this amazing pre-launch strategy, we’ve been growing a list, nurturing, and all of that, we optimize it again, the supportive nature of Jupiter as an example and I kind of look at my own chart, when I’m looking at this stuff, it can hurt and in my opinion, it just makes things flow easier.

As long as it’s going to create something from nothing, it will have, there’s kind of like a force behind it. Now, if you ask to prove it, it’s very hard but that’s certainly what we have done and we do very well with our launching.

JM: That’s very cool. It’s one of those intangible forces that’s hard to see but you know that it’s there.

DB: Exactly.

JM: Did you find it difficult when you started your businesses? Something that has been tough for me is that I started Catalyst because I needed something more spiritual and more meaningful. When we’re looking at branding and business consulting, we talk about the inner and the outer brand so it’s not just what you’re putting out on social media, your headshots, or your website, it’s all of those things, but it’s also how you feel about yourself from what you project to other people.

In the beginning, it felt like it was a little bit difficult because I’m working with these women who, much like your previous career, are in this high pressure, very analytical jobs. Sometimes I found it difficult or I shied away from going where I needed to go and that has gotten much better overtime and I’ve built a reputation for that.

Now I feel like people are kind of looking for that when they come to me. But in the beginning, when you started, did you have a hard time bringing in spirituality and astrology? Did you have people who are kind of like, “What is she talking about?” Do you feel like people kind of look like you were attracting those people that wanted that?

DB: Right. Okay, I love this question. There’s a couple of things here. One, it’s great news to hear that it sounds like it’s getting easier, and its central to my mission, and why I’m launching the products that I’ve launched is we really help normalize the conversation.

For example, in my school, we have mediums, mindfulness teachers, astrologers, and intuition teachers. We’ve got everything because I deliberately pull them in and the whole mission is to really teach all these healers modern online marketing so that this conversation can be normalized and so that when you’re working with your clients, talking about the inner world and working through that is just as norm as the branding and the messaging on the outside.

Because I chose to go into this space and I was very selective in who I was working with, I didn’t really come up across that as much. Then as things got more and more real, as we’re launching all these different schools and we’re gettings hundreds and thousands of students in, it became easier. I didn’t meet with the same resistance because I just dove into the space.

JM: How can we bring more of that intuition into our day-to-day business? I think a lot of people are warming up to the conversation and are becoming more aware of things like intuition and spirituality even if you call it your gut instinct or you had a hunch. I think a lot of people relate to that but I think people are becoming more holistically minded when it comes to being an entrepreneur and that so much of being a great entrepreneur or having success means that you’re taking care of your mind, your body, your spirit, and your business as well.

For somebody who is kind of first approaching this, what suggestions do you have for bringing some of that spirituality and intuition into their day-to-day business practices?

DB: One, I would look at the willingness and whether they’re looking for something that they can get out of their practices right now. Because typically when someone’s looking to venture into more invisible type practices or more of a mystical arts, there’s something that isn’t working with their current tools that has them looking at something else. I would take a look at what that gap is and then if it’s a matter of, “Okay, well I can’t get to a clear decision,” if they, as an example, don’t have a regular meditation practice. I would probably start with that because being able to clear the inner space really supports and accept.

Now yoga and meditation has gone relatively mainstream now so then really the next step is, “Am I willing to look at other systems like astrology or looking to see if that speaks to me and if that resonates for me so that I can start to apply some of that into small decisions?” It doesn’t have to be like big decisions in the beginning but typically, they’re going through some type of life transition or decision making process so you can start to venture out and test it for modality to see if that helps. First steps first is I would always start with just having a regular meditation practice to help that inner world get clear so you can even choose other things to explore.

JM: I love what you say about starting with small things. It’s like you don’t have to make massive life decisions when you’re getting new to listening to your intuition and knowing which of those messages to trust. I love what you say about starting with small decisions and then working your way up as you grow your confidence.

One of the things that you and I had talked about before this interview was learning to trust your own judgment and your discernment. How did you get to that place where you started to feel like you could really trust your judgment as a business person in growing your business?

DB: It was a lot of practice and experimentation. First, I committed to my rituals and my practices. I said, “Okay, I’m committing to doing this type of meditation every single day. I’m committed to this yoga practice. I’m committed to bringing on this teacher that’s going to help me with my spiritual growth.” But first I committed to the practice because really you can’t get away from that.

The second is I started testing. I would be faced with a question or whatnot and I would tune in and check into myself and say, “Okay, my body and my sensing feels like it’s this,” and then I would go and do my own research, talk to people, and do the checking and rechecking. Then overtime, I saw that I would come to the same conclusion after doing all of the lengthy research, data, and all the testing as I would just with this inner sense of inner knowing. Now the other flip side to that is that you also have to understand your triggers. For example, I’ve been seeing my therapist for a long time for years.

JM: Me too.

DB: Really?

JM: I’m a big believer, just like you need the CPA, business coach, or any of those people that are on your team, business attorney. I’m a big believer in a great therapist, yup.

DB: Exactly, exactly. I believe in the therapy side of things in terms of channeling your psychology in addition to the spiritual practices. We bring that two together, it’s like, “Boom!” We also have to understand our triggers because if we’re not aware of, we can call them the shadow points or the psychological triggers, we can’t be clear and we think that there are deeper intuition, but that’s not really it. It’s more of understanding, “Okay, am I triggered right now or is this really hitting some part of myself that I’m not aware of?”

JM: Really hitting a nerve. Can you give me an example? I know this is kind of personal but is there like a trigger that you can share where as you have a reaction, you now say, “Oh, wait, hold on, I recognize that this is a trigger, this is not my intuition saying to stop.”

DB: Yes, yes. For example, one of my triggers – and this is really growing up with my parents, they’re immigrants, they came here when I was a year old and they were working a lot and so i got pulled into really supporting their businesses rightfully so for the survival purposes – one of the triggers that I really identified through my therapy work is that when I start to feel like I’m overly demanded of, when people are asking me too many questions and making too many requests, I get into the state of, “Well, I have to take care of everyone. No one can do it for me, I have to do everything.”

JM: Oh, my God. That’s exactly what I would give as an example. Oh, totally, I so totally relate to that.

DB: That’s great.

JM: It becomes impossible to ask for help because you feel like you have to do it all. Oh, my goodness.

DB: Exactly. At that moment though, if someone’s asking me for something, I don’t really have sure discernment. Now I’m proud to say that I’ve worked through, I’m continuing to, but I’ve worked through a lot of this.

But for a long time, if someone was asking me for something at that time, there was a big request, I didn’t really have a discernment to be able to distinguish between, “Okay, intuitively this is the right thing to do because I’m just so triggered,” and in that state of, “Oh, my God, that’s one more thing I need to say yes to or one more thing I need to handle.” That’s kind of what I mean by the trigger and the intuition. I think that this is actually where people get a little nervous about going into the territory because it’s such a fine balance and really it just takes a lot of time to really cultivate and develop.

JM: When you get to that point, and I know like you just said, it takes time to cultivate that discernment, but let’s say that you get a request today. Let’s say you got an email and somebody wants you take on some crazy project. Now when you start to feel the trigger creep up, how do you deal with that? How do you then stop and say, “Okay,” how do you move forward from that?

DB: Yeah. Now, for me, my practice is about the feeling through of that moment. Now I’m able to notice that, “Okay, I’m triggered.” I’m feeling that contraction in my body. I take a moment and once I’m really with it, it actually disappears quickly. I’m just not letting it run me at this point and so I can look at it and say, “Okay. Now my deeper sense and my deeper knowing, it’s a felt sense.” For me it’s a felt sense, for some people, they see more visuals while for some people, they’re picking up even a more sight sense, more sound. But for me, it’s a really deep felt sense.

JM: Oh, that’s hard.

DB: Right, exactly. This is something that I’ve also have to learn in terms of how my intuition shows up for me. For me, once I move through that immediate reaction, “Oh, here’s something that someone’s asking for,” and I go into that. My deep felt sense will tell me where some people they’re like looking more fully visual and things like that and then I know. So far it’s been working out. I have to say, again it’s not like I’m proving every single outcome but things are definitely slowing and slowing more than ever. I’m a mom now.

JM: Right, right. And as time goes on I feel like as a new entrepreneur, thirteen years ago, I felt like I had to say yes to everything and motherhood certainly changes things. As you get older you realize that it’s better to do fewer things really well and then everything you say yes to is going to pull off the path of the things that you’re committed to doing now. How many kids do you have by the way?

DB: One. I have a toddler.

JM: Oh, congratulations. It really does change everything, doesn’t it?

DB: Oh, thank you. It does.

JM: How do you balance that? How do you find the balance of parenting and having a business?

DB: That’s interesting. People ask me that all the time including my students and clients. I sound like a broken record but I did probably about six months when my husband was very clear, “You could see I’m ready and I really want to be a dad now.” I spent about six months really going deep dive into working with my astrologers, my therapists, doing some immersive weekend workshops to really get clear on what I was getting behind with being a mom. That was one.

The second thing I had was very clear conversations with my husband around, “Okay, I want to be a mom. I’m going to do everything I can to be an amazing mom and amazing wife and successful business. Here are the things that we really need to be looking at.”

We have an amazing nanny. I’m really clear on my boundaries and when I’m making decisions of supporting the business. I took a month off when I had him. I didn’t get to take a lot of time off in the beginning, I was still kind of weaving back in part time but I was very clear and I gave myself the permission to say, “Okay, I’m going to be this type of mom and there are certain things that I’m not going to do just because society is saying that,” or I don’t have to make every single meal as an example. I got really clear on that. So between that and the external structures, that has really helped to move me along and my business as well ever since he arrived so it wasn’t like he went the other way.

JM: What kind of boundaries did you feel like you had to get clear on when you had a child?

DB: Weekends, in the past because I used to have actually even more clients than I have now for one, I had to take down the number clients for like weekends, our family time suffered before if I still have to respond to staff, now if we’re in middle of the launch, that’s sad. But in terms of work to evening structures and weekends, it’s like family time. In the mornings, when we wake up, we can’t all be on our phones, because it’s so easy to get pulled into your phone.

JM: And then pulled into the day.

DB: Exactly. I had to set clear boundaries on when to check the phone, when to turn off the phone. So it was a simple structure like that that actually make a big difference for Jacob and my husband.

JM: That’s awesome. I completely agree. I think it makes a huge, huge difference when you get clear on those boundaries. It’s interesting because I went through a phase early on where I was just running around like a crazy person to the point that, I mean, we, in 2009 had this crazy year where my older son – and I always, anytime we talk about this, I say he is healthy and he’s an honor student, people are probably sick of hearing it but I feel like it’s important to mention that – he had brain tumor when he was two and that year, I miscarried and I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis.

It was like, here’s this lesson that obviously I was getting the messages as we were going and I was ignoring them until finally the universe was like, boom, “Here’s three big ones, are you getting it now? It’s time to stop.” In some ways, it sucks to be brought to your knees that way, I mean, our household income, that was during the recession too. Our household income didn’t reach $10,000 that year. It was bad. My husband had just gotten his license in real estate. It was like the perfect shit storm.

But the beautiful thing about that was at first, we need to get super clear like you said on those boundaries and priorities. I think people respect you more for I didn’t know what then, but I was very fearful about restructuring my schedule and what I was willing to do. Today, I take very few in person meetings. I think most things can be done unless it’s a new client or a really meaningful work.

A lot of things can be handled through technology but I don’t really do lunch meetings anymore, it’s super rare because I feel like that is that piece of time where I can get into a flow with work. The first two times I turned down lunch meetings, I felt kind of bad and I said, “I’m happy to meet for coffee first thing in the morning. I can meet you on my way to pick up my kids in the afternoon but I don’t do lunch meetings anymore because that’s my time to get into my work and not be pulled away.” I think people actually respect you more for it rather than look down upon it or feel offended by it so I have appreciated that. That’s been an interesting lesson for me in terms of balancing all the priorities.

DB: I agree. All of that and this kind of comes back to what we’re talking about with the discernment early on, like we also had to trust ourselves and know that we’re making the right call, otherwise, we’re left feeling bad or weird for saying no because we also want to please people. There’s so much stuff that comes up and they’re like, “Oh, my God, this is going to have a negative impact on my business,” I mean there’s just all kinds of things like that coming up.

JM: So, so true. This was a question that we have emailed a little bit about before and I was interested to talk to you more about it. How did you decide to invest in your business and how did you choose some of those leverage points as you were growing your business? Did your intuition come into play a lot with that or is it more kind of traditional sort of business planning?

DB: I thought at that time it was more traditional planning and then I realized, it was really pretty much only intuition.

JM: It’s funny when you look back and it’s like, “Oh, you see how that works?

DB: Some of it was education and just getting exposed on talking to other entrepreneurs and figuring out the next step. That was the first step. The second thing even if it sounds a little bit more, “Who he is?” I did ask, in my prayers, my meditations, in my rituals, I did ask for other forces at play to show me the way and to end my message to other forces at play. We’re around, “Look, I’m willing, I’m open, I’d love to be shown guidance and to be shown the way.”

There is just more of a practical application and the education then there was more of the opening and the receiving part of that. Then between those two, I was able to figure out, “Okay, for now, I really need to bring in this project manager and we’re going start this person off at full time before we send them to full time.”

Now I really want to make a focus play on ads and so it’s time to go and find a really strong ads person. This I did, I probably could have moved a lot faster if I was surrounded by more mentors. That was probably something that I didn’t really find myself like going into events or like jumping into masterminds which now looking back, I probably could have grown a lot, I would have grown a lot faster had it been in more environments around other high level entrepreneurs. But I always say, it was pretty much all intuition in terms of meeting the right people and figuring out if they were a right fit. It was a combination of asking for help from other forces and then just doing research and talking to people.

JM: How do you work through the real life kind of tangible concerns? Your intuition says, “Hire this person or it’s time to focus on ads,” but then you have to write a check at the end of that, there’s the financial risk, there’s kind of side of a two. How do you balance that potential real risk of losing money, failure, or problems that come up when your guidance tells you, “Okay, it’s time to take this next step?” For you, has it just become sort of, “I get that guidance and I pulled the trigger,” or is there a process for you that you have to work through when it comes to the real life tangible risk that comes along with those decisions?

DB: Yes. Great question and I’m so glad that you’re asking me this because I realized I had to skip a couple of steps there. Once something opens up and it’s clear that I have to take these next steps, or maybe it’s not even a step, it’s more like ten steps forward, one of my strengths and really one of my superpowers is creating and crafting a revenue strategy. Then my mind gets to work and maybe we could say this is the more expressive, the more productive for the more masculine side however we want to frame it but it’s really where, “Okay, based on where my business is at, is that a matter of introducing new products? Is that a matter of partnerships? But what’s my revenue strategy that I can implement and expand upon for the next three to six months that’s going to offset this initial risky path that I’m taking?” I’m very good with the revenue, I think part of that is just from the business training and just being at companies for so long. That’s really actually a lot of the gifts that I bring with my clients is that we’re always growing the business with these online launches.

JM: I love that. That’s huge. That’s great advice. It’s funny many times that I’m working with clients and even with my husband when we have conversations – we’re in Arizona where it’s just ungodly hot all summer like nobody wants to be here in summer time, it’s horrible – it’s like, “Maybe we could spend four weeks somewhere else.” It’s so funny, he and I are this wonderful balance because he’s that person who’s very based on reality and he’s like, “I don’t know how we’re going to do that.” My mind goes to, “Well let’s just look at possibility. We’re not booking anything right now. Let’s look, let’s do some research, let’s see what it would cost.”

It’s so funny because I think that is a great strategy for manifesting. Something that I talk to clients about is you just kind of allow yourself the ability to fantasize about what that would be like and what it would look like. I think oftentimes, it’s kind of a defense mechanism against failures to just shut something down before you even really have all the information. I love that you say that. It resonates for me. It’s like you get that guidance and then you go about, “Okay, how do we do it? How would we make this happen versus what I think a lot of people do when they fear failure, feel that there’s risk.” It’s immediately all the reason that something is not possible. I think that’s very interesting insight into your decision making.

DB: I love that. I just realized, I don’t think I’ve had someone tease that quite out of me because it’s such a second nature for me like I just go about and then we just start to like knocking out.

JM: I love that. That’s me too. I’m like, “I want to do this, how are we going to do it? Come on everybody.” We’re probably driving everybody crazy but it keeps things interesting. Tell me a couple of your top tips, you are a person who really leads business leaders. You are really helping successful business women to grow through online launches and growing their businesses. Our listeners here for catalyst conversations are mainly women entrepreneurs. What advice would you provide to them as they grow their businesses?

DB: I would say one, I know we’re all afraid, at some point, you’re going to have to grow your team and you’re going to get to this point where having the right team members is going to five, ten-x your business growth than you are to keep it small and contained even though it’s scary.

This kind of comes back to, “Okay, what are the risks that I’m taking with adding one or two team members, whether they’re part time or contractors, or vendors, and whatnot to now we’re back to this revenue strategy in terms of how we’re going to offset that and really make this happen?” But from what I can see, people wait too long to expand their teams because it is scary. We never know quite where we’re getting into and whether this person is going to be this sick. The team is still so important and oftentimes I see people just waiting too late so you’ve missed some of that momentum, traffic, and energy that you’ve really been building.

Two, I realized that for myself, it took me too long to really get into these masterminds or these mentor groups where I’m surrounded by other high level entrepreneurs. What I found is that really seize me and comes and get me unstuck, especially if entrepreneurs, and all entrepreneurs who can easily kind of get into our hibernation and it just feels so isolated and so what I realized is just like being surrounded by other entrepreneurs and mentors has really helped me feel my creative energy and just helps me see possibility and think bigger but also think concrete so I would say get your stuff into the right fit.

JM: How do you find a great mentor when you are the person who is providing great guidance in your career? How do you go about finding somebody who can be a great mentor for you?

DB: I don’t have the most straightforward task for this because one, I’ve realized I needed to find some mentors and then I started asking people like I was even asking just even for example my Facebook Ads manager if she knew so and so and I would just start talking to people who are very well connected with other entrepreneurs. Because there’s also a lot knowing so I wanted it to come through people that I know and people who knew me. I just started asking people and then they start to like pop up and then I would ask other entrepreneurs like who are you working with? Who is your business coach? I think it was a combination of the openness and really just asking people and saying, “Okay, I really do want to get myself into the right group or have the right mentor.

JM: I love that. That’s great advice. I really enjoyed talking with you today, Destinee. Thank you so much for your time. Where can people learn more about your business and your services?

DB: My website is probably the best way, destineeberman.com. All my information is there and in terms of what we’re offering and then what we’re up to.